As to the no turn on red signage, I'm not exactly sure what could be do beyond police enforcement of that ordinance (which is completely unrealistic based on my experience here in Raleigh......). What are your thoughts about what you want to see happen there? Sometimes you just can't fix stupidity.

With regard to “No Turn on Red,” here’s what makes this intersection a problem with potentially serious consequences:

Drivers who are unfamiliar with the intersection, and who are in the far right lane on Glenwood waiting at the light to turn right onto Oberlin, don’t realize there’s a service road to their immediate right.

They see two lanes of cars on Oberlin driving past them to turn left onto Glenwood. They can easily assume that ALL of those vehicles are turning onto Glenwood, so they think their coast is clear for a right turn.

But any one of the cars in the left lane of those two lanes can turn sharply left onto the service road instead of continuing straight and onto Glenwood. It will happen suddenly, and without warning to the vehicle on Glenwood that wants to turn onto Oberlin. If it happens when that vehicle is turning right on red from Glenwood, a collision can occur.

Currently there are two “No Turn on Red” signs at this intersection. One is in the traditional position, mounted alongside the overhead stoplight. The 2nd sign, added later in an attempt to address the problem we’re discussing here, is mounted on a pole.

Here are the problems with the current signage: First, the overhead sign is not directly in the field of vision of a driver who is waiting at the light, because the turn lane, where the driver is waiting, curves toward Oberlin. The overhead sign is also very high in the air, in addition to being basically invisible at night.

Secondly, the pole-mounted sign is ineffective because of where it is located: it can’t be seen by a driver who is waiting to turn. A driver who has pulled to the front of the turn lane (where the heavy white line is painted) is already 2 car lengths past the sign. (The pole-mounted sign is marked with a red arrow.) That sign cannot serve as a deterrent to a driver who is considering turning right on red, because it is not in their field of vision.

Given the configuration of the roads here, there’s no easy fix for this problem. To me, the best solution would be to move the pole-mounted sign from its current location to a location that will be in the field of vision of a driver on Glenwood who is contemplating turning right on red.
There are three possible locations, marked with blue arows: 1) The small concrete traffic island that is closest to the driver. A properly-angled sign in that location, aimed toward that driver, would be an improvement. 2) The sign could be placed at the end of the narrow concrete traffic divider that separates vehicles that are exiting and entering Oberlin. 3) Finally, the larger traffic island on the right hand side of the image would also put the sign more in a driver’s field of vision.

Certainly “You can’t fix stupid”… and some drivers will turn even if they did see a sign. But I think we can improve the signage, and that will make some drivers think twice before they turn from Glenwood onto Oberlin while their light is red.

My .02. With regard to the other issue, I still hope they’ll allow vehicles in that lane on Oberlin to either go left onto Glenwood or straight into the new condos. In any case, I agree that hopefully they will work to keep Oberlin delays to a minimum.

I've never experienced anything potentially dangerous at that intersection but I can see the potential for it. I agree that the signal mounted sign is not very visible for people making rights. Not sure how visible those 3 other locations would be - I guess it would depend on the size of the sign. Those aren't exactly spots I would be looking at when making a right turn or not (and by the time the driver sees it, they may have already committed to the right turn (or if they stop wcould block access into the service road from the left turning vehicles) An alternative would be to prevent lefts from Oberlin into the shopping center and force cars to go the long way around to access the service road past the shopping center on Glenwood. That wouldn't be ideal for people accessing Glenwood Village but it would prevent the potential conflict.

Alternatively there could be a right turn signal added I guess with a red arrow when cars are supposed to stop (but obviously an additional signal is costly and not preferred)

I'd like to leave this issue open. Hoping someone will look at the 2 things cited here: 1) Can we improve the location of "No Turn on Red" signage at this intersection to help drivers avoid potential crashes with vehicles turning left off of Oberlin Road into the service road in front of the Exxon station, and 2) Are we really planning to reduce the number of lanes that can turn left off of Oberlin onto Glenwood, from the current 2 down to 1? I understand the need to accommodate traffic that will go straight across the intersection into the new residential building that is under construction. But I anticipate multi-cycle delays for traffic on Oberlin attempting to get on outbound Glenwood. As I frequently use this intersection, that concerns me. Thanks.

I would try one of the below contacts as Glenwood Ave is NCDOT maintained (so they have a say as to what happens with the signal). I think the City of Raleigh operate the signals though within city limits.

Jed Niffenegger - jed.niffenegger@raleighnc.gov (City of Raleigh traffic engineer)
John Sandor - jesandor@ncdot.gov (NCDOT Division 5 deputy traffic engineer)
(or any of the first 3 contacts here: https://apps.ncdot.gov/dot/directory/authenticated/UnitPage.aspx?id=12658)

So apparently the engineering firm I work for helped do some work for the development at that intersection. I didn't work on it but I dug out the latest revised signal plans that we edited and it indicates two left turn lanes from Oberlin Road (last revised March 2016). So not sure if anything has changed since then or if there was some sort of miscommunication with the developer but I'll ask around and see if anyone has an answer.

I spoke with one of our traffic engineers who worked on the signal plans submitted to NCDOT and he said that they made no changes to the Oberlin Road approach so he doesn't know why the configuration is different now. I'd reach out to either Jed or John or someone else at NCDOT to figure out why what's out there is different from the signal plans.

Thanks for the heads up. I appreciate it.

The developer has been notified - hope that fixes that part of your question!

The sign that’s covered in burlap does not match the final signal upgrade design plans. Because it is up to the contractor to have the right signage up, the Transportation Department is currently investigating. We will share additional updates when they are available.

Thank you very much!

FYI, the burlap has come off of the (incorrect) sign, which is likely to confuse some drivers. I hope this situation will be addressed soon, before there's an accident. Thanks again.

Keep open.

And FYI, this issue (of the incorrect sign) is also noted in this report/thread:

https://en.seeclickfix.com/issues/3446715-traffic-sign

Thanks

Agreed - curious why this has not been fixed.

Keep it open.

The problem of the improper signage was first reported in January.

The sign is inaccurate, confusing to drivers and potentially dangerous.

It is also the subject of another report (https://en.seeclickfix.com/issues/3446715-traffic-sign), from May.

Someone please get this fixed.

Thanks.

The sign was finally replaced with the correct one. This can be closed now.