Thanks So much for raising this issue. Everyday my family talks about the crabapple montessori school and Kroger intersection being dangerous.

As a parent of a child that is enrolled at CMS, this has been an issue for the last 5 years! Something does need to addressed to increase the safety for ALL that use this intersection.

My family and I absolutely support this proposal. It is a dangerous intersection and in fact, we could use a traffic light there as well.

Olga Fingerman

don't forget to vote in the top right corner!

Thank you! I have almost gotten hit several times and hope something is done soon.

A traffic light would be great. It is difficult to make a left turn out of the driveway as well due to the limited sight distance in both directions & speed of traffic.

I too have almost been hit several times. Very dangerous. A light would be even better as it is nearly impossible to make a left hand turn there. Every time I take my preschooler to school I hold my breath when I turn in, if someone is waiting to turn into Kroger.

This is a very legitimate safety concern. I have had a few close calls when pulling out of the school parking lot. North bound traffic swerving around the cars that are stopped making a Left into Kroger is a real problem.

I hope the city acts quickly before someone gets hurt or worse.

Definitely a safety concern. We need immediate action before anyone gets hurt.

This is a very serious safety concern, especially because it is probable that children (and very young ones) would be in the cars involved. The people who violate this are always in a rush and are traveling over the speed limit of 35.

With all the construction on 140/Arnold Mill, I have noticed more and more bad behavior and traffic violations on Crabapple near the Silos, Kroger and the entrance to the school/business park complex. This is especially true in the mornings between 8-9am. Could the city put an officer there NOW to direct traffic and make sure everyone is safely getting to work and school? It would really be a shame if someone were seriously hurt while we are waiting for the city to resolve this.

This intersection is very dangerous and I think a traffic light there would be the perfect fix. I have had several close calls when trying to turn in to drop off or pick up my child. Preschool dropoff shouldn't feel like Russian roulette!

With only minor improvements we can prevent a dangerous situation for everyone traveling that intersection; it needs even more attention since little children are at risk. Please fix this.

Thank you all for your comments.

The City will increase periodic traffic enforcement in the subject area.

While the City is able to employ crossing guards to assist with pedestrian flow at service points for public schools, we are not able to do so for private schools, charter schools, etc. Several private schools in the area hire off-duty officers to assist with traffic control and ingress / egress to their facilities during peak periods. Should you have interest in pursuing this option, an official from your school should contact our Department of Public Safety by calling 678-297-6300.

The issue with which you are dealing is not an unusual one. In many instances the best means of fixing the problem begins with removal of the right-hand deceleration lane and adding roadway features to limit / control left turning movements. These strtategies have proven to be very effective at other locations in Alpharetta and may be the best option for addressing your safety concerns.

The City is looking at the configuration of the roadway at this location and will suggest a design to the Georgia Department of Transportation (GDOT) that is focused on enhancing safety. The roadway, however, is a State road, so GDOT has the final authority over any design changes.

With respect to the potential for placement of a traffic signal, the subject location does not meet the warrants required. There are certain minimum criteria, what we refer to as warrants, that must be met in order to place a traffic signal on a State road or highway. As none of the minimum warrants are currently met, GDOT will not permit signal placement.

I have almost been hit several times trying to make a left out onto Crabapple. It is like Russian Roulette and only a matter of time until someone gets hit.

I have come close to an accident in this dangerous location

For the past 7 years, I've been making that turn to Crabapple Montessori with children in the car, and wether its a right or a left turn, I get nervous every single time. This is a very dangerous part of the road, ind it does not help that people are always in a hurry, and don't pay any attention to what's around them. Something definitely needs to be done to make it safer.

Thank you to the City of Alpharetta for responding. Increased traffic enforcement in the area is a welcome first step toward making the area safe.

The second thing which must happen to ensure safety is that the right turn lane needs to be made inviolable, such as through the installation of delineators. I urge the City to include this recommendation in its design for the GDOT. Eliminating the right turn only lane would be counterproductive, as a large number of vehicles turn right into that driveway, and if straight-traveling traffic had to slow for each right-turning vehicle, traffic would be impeded and the likelihood of a rear-end collision would be increased.

As to crossing guards, they would have no place at this particular intersection. This is not a pedestrian thoroughfare. The parties likely to be in accidents are vehicles. In the most likely scenario for a vehicle collision, a driver traveling in excess of 35 mph will collide with the driver's door of a slow-moving vehicle exiting 12387 Crabapple Road. In all likelihood, the exiting vehicle will have young passengers.

As to the suggestion of employing off-duty officers to control traffic flow, this is a grossly inadequate solution. While this current effort to increase safety at this intersection is being spearheaded by the Crabapple Montessori Parents Association and its members, this is not only a school issue, and it is not a problem the solution to which should be funded by the school. The City of Alpharetta has established a traffic pattern at this intersection which is a reasonable one if obeyed by motorists. The simplest, most effective and least expensive solution to this problem is to enforce the law and add a physical barrier to make further violations physically impossible.

The large number of us who have spoken up within the last 24 hours, not to mention the numerous complaints which have been made over the past several years, make the severity of this issue abundantly clear. I appreciate the City of Alpharetta's assistance in resolving the problem.

By simply installing the traffic "pole" type barriers like those that exist at the entrance/exit near McDonalds on 140 near red light on Crabapple Road, an improvement would be seen. Drivers cannot get out if we have to worry about being hit by impatient reckless drivers. The poles make it impossible for drivers to pass by using the turn lane, when they are not turning. Is that really too much to ask?

This intersection has posed a risk for many years. We are glad that the City of Alpharetta is willing to help solve the problem. School Zone speed limit during certain hours of the day will help keep the children and parents safe. The concern with the right turn lane needs to be addressed.

I would like to add my concern to this issue. Too many people use the turning lane as a means to get around traffic waiting to turn into the Kroger's strip mall. This is dangerous for pedestrians and vehicles trying to enter the intersection.

City of Alpharetta - please put the delineators on this right hand turn lane to demonstrate to our children that 1) you want to see an end to the traffic violations and 2) that their lives and safety are just as important as those of the North Farm subdivision residence (Houze Rd), McDonalds customers (Arnold Mill Rd), Publix customers (Crabapple Rd) and the children of Crabapple academy (Rucker Rd) where these delineators have been place within 1/2 mile of our school.

Please include traffic delineators in front of the pediatrician's office and school entrance immediately. We fear for our safety when making that turn.

Today a Fulton County Schools school bus violated the right turn lane right in front of me. My long loud horn did nothing to even get the driver's attention. When I contacted Fulton County Schools' transportation safety inspector, he said, "I can tell you the drivers are not trained to do that." I am sure that they are trained to follow the law, but clearly this intersection is one at which no one is in any fear of being ticketed.

It has been nearly a week since this complaint was lodged, and now over 100 people have added their voices. Yet, not once have I seen any police presence in the area. When will Alpharetta be acting?

I too am very concerned about the traffic dangers around the entrances to the Kroger Shopping Center from Crabapple Road and the office complex on the other side of the road that houses Crabapple Montessori School . Drivers going north very frequently use the right turn lane to the school rather than wait for a driver stopped to turn left to the Kroger shopping center. They often do this at a high speed endangering the drivers of the cars with small children turning right to go to the school. There have been too many close calls and a dangerous accident is waiting to happen.

I agree with many who have commented already that, at the minimum, the City of Alpharetta must install barriers on the right turn lane which will force the drivers going north not to use the right turn lane.

I request the City officials to move fast to address this issue effectively.

It is worth noting that this driveway is also the access point for 12385 and 12389 Crabapple Rd which houses a Family Dentist, an OB/Gyn, a Paediatrician and an IT company. These business are are just as concerned about the traffic violations and will be joining this call for action.

It is worth noting that this driveway is also the access point for 12385 and 12389 Crabapple Rd which houses a Family Dentist, an OB/Gyn, a Paediatrician and an IT company. These business are are just as concerned about the traffic violations and will be joining this call for action.

Swerved to miss the car turning out of the complex. Minor injuries but ambulance dispatched.

Ken, I am so glad that no one was badly injured. This is exactly why this intersection needs Alpharetta's attention. It seems that perhaps Alpharetta neglects it because it is a short stretch of Crabapple Road that is within its jurisdiction between two other cities, but the fact remains that it is Alpharetta's responsibility and it is dangerous. Perhaps the accident, unfortunate and avoidable as it is, will finally get someone at the City of Alpharetta to pay enough attention to take action. Over 100 people weighing in over the period of only one week has not resulted in any action.

I think it definitely needs the poles to stop people from using the right only turn lane, so that they can go around people turning into the Kroger shopping center. I have been nearly hit also. Plus they don't even slow down! Please can we have the poles as soon as possible. Thank you.

I agree with the description of the danger at this intersection. Cars don’t even slow down when they decide to use the turning lane to get around left turners. I work at 12385 and not only does it happen on our side of the street, it also occurs on the opposite side, where the hash marks are clearly engraved on the payment. More than once have I stood out there, on the corner waiting to cross the street, and nearly got clipped.

Everyone, please be careful at this intersection! Cars typically exceed the speed limit and they are always using the turning lane to bypass anyone turning left. Since I am in a unique position where I can walk to Kroger or Subway, I also have to concern myself with no sidewalks going into the Kroger parking lot. Basically, I am are forced to walk amongst moving cars to get to my destination. Again, please be careful at this intersection!

This is an intersection where a good number of those moving about are children. As noted by Lisa Chant, the businesses across from the Kroger plaza provide services for them, therefore, increasing the probability of a child being involved in a car accident at this spot. If nothing moves the authorities to take action, this fact should.

Dear City of Alpharetta and Georgia DOT - I am perplexed, why is there no school zone surrounding this elementary school?

Not only is the right hand turn lane violation an issue but people leaving the Kroger complex constantly run the stop sign. Just yesterday I pulled up to the stop sign on the school side and noticed a car on the kroger side waiting to turn left. I was wanting to turn right. I motioned to them to go ahead when it was safe. Shortly after they completed their turn I started mine and 3 cars blatantly ran the stop sign and almost hit me as I was pulling out. They moved as if they had a green light not even pausing (california stop as they say) at the stop sign.

I stood at this intersection for 30 minutes yesterday morning, from 8:15 to 8:45. I counted ten vehicles turning left into Kroger. Some turned without any traffic behind them, but the rest waited to turn left while vehicles illegally passed them. More than 15 vehicles violated this turn lane in those 30 minutes. This includes multiple vehicles illegally passing a semi truck, meaning that they had no visibility around the truck, so they put in danger both vehicles that actually had the right of way (those turning left into school) and vehicles exiting school. If there are that many violators in such a short period of time, how many must there be in the course of the day? And why is the city taking absolutely no action whatsoever?

Another vehicle (Toyota Sienna) illegally passing a turning vehicle (the silver SUV) and going straight through the turn lane while another vehicle (Mercedes SUV) has right of way.

Black Honda, again violating the turn lane.

Black truck doing it as well -- notice they are all passing the same turning vehicle, meaning these all happened within seconds of each other.

Red pickup too impatient to wait legally, as vehicle turning left into school had right of way, as does vehicle exiting school turning right.

Follow up to first picture, clarifying the vehicle went straight and not turned into school.

Megan, Thank you for putting proof of this issue clearly visible for all to see!
It is astounding that during that time so many violations took place.
Alpharetta, think about this please! Not only is it a clear safety issue, but you could be filling your pockets on fines here!

It truly is shocking to have an intersection with such numerous wilful traffic violations, in front of a school no less, and a City and Police Department taking absolutely no action and apparently having no concern. We know from discussions with tenants in other buildings and the families who have been with our school for many years that this issue is not at all new. We also know that there have been many accidents at this intersection. It is baffling that no attention has been paid to this hot spot.

This is a VERY busy 2 lane road with no left turn lane westbound or eastbound.

I made a complaint more than a year ago.

DELINEATERS are NECESSARY.

Alpharetta Police citing drivers will only temporarily halt those who chose to pass illegally or until a reconfiguration of the roadway if finalized.

Please take the action.

I agree with the comment about the additional danger from cars exiting the Kroger shopping center turning left not stopping and acknowledging right-of-way for cars turning right out of the school/pediatrician/dentist/ob-gyn office lot.

We are not asking for this to be turned into a public school zone, but instead asking for this intersection to be safer. The shopping center next door (with the Natural Foods Warehouse, Alpine Bakery, etc.) is linked by a separate roadway but also lacks a safe exit. As this area has become busier and more developed there needs to be increased infrastructure to support these businesses. They are bringing tax revenue to Alpharetta and need safety for their clients, employees, and owners in return.

I was almost t-boned yesterday leaving turning right out the silo side by 3 vehicles passing in the turn only lane. They proceeded with giving the finger and yelling obscenities as they drove past at high speeds. They didn't even slow down, as they came up they just changed lanes and slowed down to avoid hitting me.

The City of Alpharetta is actively working with the Georgia Department of Transportation (GDOT) on this issue. GDOT has advised that the bollards (referenced in some comments above as delineators) are not an appropriate application and will not be allowed as they would actually increase the potential for crashes at this location.

Engineers from both agencies will be on site over the next few days analyzing the situation to determine the appropriate means of treating the road to effectively address your safety concerns. It is very likely that the final solution will involve the elimination of the right deceleration lane into the property and the creation of an eastbound left turn lane into the shopping center.

I am afraid that eliminating the right turn lane will not solve the SPEED infractions that happen there as well. It is an 35mls zone and NOBODY slows dow-they accelerate!!! When it will become a thru lane, there will definitely be NO SLOWING DOWN either as they will 'legally' be able to zoom through.
Will there be a left turn lane into the school/pediatrician area as well, coming from the other side? It will be impossible to see around the cars going into Krogers.
The delineators are not just the bollards on the road - they are actual posts one cannot drive over/through so they have to stop and wait in line when someone turns

I thank the City of Alpharetta for finally looking into this issue that has been a major concern for the businesses located on the other side of the Kroger Shopping Center on Crabapple Road.

I understand that the bollards may not be a good solution here although we see them around the North Farm subdivision, Publix Shopping Center, etc. We will have to rely on the good judgment of the engineers.

With regard to adding the left turn lane and eliminating the current right hand turning lane, I would like to point out that a lot of northbound cars turn left into the Kroger Shopping Center. If the left turn lane is not long enough, it will not solve the problem as the cars will not wait behind the stopped cars and will go around them, creating the same hazard we have today.

I totally agree with the comment of the concerned citizen. I am not sure if what the City of Alpharetta is calling bollards are the same as what many of us are asking for - a barrier that does not allow the cars to go over it and forces the cars going straight to wait behind the cars that are turning left into the Kroger Shopping Center.

By the way, a similar solution needs to be implemented for the southbound traffic.

To clarify, we use the term "bollard" when referring to short poles of various design used to seperate, guide, or prevent traffic flow and/or vehicular movement. A photo is attached to illustrate, but one type of bollard can be found on Highway 140 near the North Farm entrance.

Bollards were an effective solution on Highway 140 by North Farm, according to GDOT, because there is no designated left turn movement across from that entrance. That is the key difference between that application and the location that we are discussing.

The delineators or bollards are also used in front of McDonalds because of the same problem. Drivers were using the right turn lane to bypass stopped traffic putting those exiting McDonalds/Waffle House driveway at risk for being hit. The exact same issue we are dealing with. Getting rid of the lane is a ridiculous solution!

Enhanced traffic enforcement by City of Alpharetta police officers began yesterday, and cittations are being written at the subject location.

During morning rush hour there was no police presence

Noon release, no police presence

Thanks to the City for acknowledging this and taking steps toward working with GDOT to evaluate this area. I agree that there are safety concerns along with violations, but don't think it's reasonable to expect a police presence in the morning, midday and afternoon, every single day, in order to enforce traffic laws. I think that if that's the solution that the community wants, then it's something we should consider funding to have an off-duty officer or traffic guide of some sort to handle that. I don't think that's necessary, but can understand if others do.

Hi Kaitlin
Thanks for comment
That is exactly the point. It is not feasible to have an officer there at those crucial times every day which is exactly why we are looking for a more permanent solution to this major safety and speeding issue
As much as I understand GDOT is looking for the flow of traffic, it remains there are speed and traffic violations committed on a daily basis and this is endangering the most vulnerable of all, mainly children and other people at that junction
I drove to see the other intersections and 2 of the 3 also have a junction across the road which was referred to before as being a constraint.
Eliminating the right turn lane is not a safe solution
It is an easy solution

Making a point about the lack of officers was only in response to their promise of presence. I don't think this is necessary or effective long term it was an easy response for them but again I'm not seeing the follow through.

I appreciate the city's focus on this issue and do hope there will be intermittent enforcement during the morning rush (from 8 a.m. - 8:45 a.m.) to send a message to drivers tempted to break the law. I have noticed that making a difference in other areas that typically have poor driving behavior.

It is excellent progress that the Alpharetta PD, City of Alpharetta and GDOT are spending energy on this issue. Thank you for your efforts.

With all due to respect, however, I fail to see how eliminating the one safety device present at the intersection (the northbound right hand deceleration lane) in favor of a dedicated left hand turn lane would improve safety at this spot. It seems that such a move would improve safety for people turning left into Kroger, but drastically reduce safety for the school.

This shift in the focus of safety is greatly concerning given the difference in volume of traffic between the school and Kroger. Crabapple Montessori has 135 families enrolled. Between 8:15 and 9:00 a.m., 135 vehicles carrying children enter that parking lot (and soon after exit). During approximately the same period on Monday of this week, I counted ten vehicles turning left into Kroger.

In addition to the sheer volume of traffic entering the school versus turning into Kroger, a realignment of the lanes in favor of the left turning traffic would only shift the lane violators to the left. Straightbound traffic frustrated by vehicles slowing to turn right into the school would speed past on the left, violating the dedicated left turn lane. This would not solve the problem.

As to the City/GDOT concern that delineators/bollards would somehow decrease safety, the only logical reason for this concern would be that delineators would prevent speeding vehicles from swerving to avoid stopped left-turning traffic. In other words, law-breakers need a place to go when they fail to drive safely.

First, catering to unsafe drivers at the expense of the school is counter-intuitive.

Second, having no right lane available for accident avoidance would be exactly the same as countless other roads throughout the area. Crabapple Road at Green Road is set up this way, as is Rucker Road at many intersections, Cox Road through Alpharetta/Roswell, and many others. Drivers are expected, and required by law, to slow down when a vehicle ahead of them is turning. If this is an acceptable set up for all of these other roads, why would it be unacceptable in front of Crabapple Montessori?

Third, any concern that delineators would increase rear-end collisions between vehicles turning left into Kroger and vehicles approaching from the rear to go straight ignores the fact that eliminating the right-turn lane would increase the risk of rear-end collisions between decelerating vehicles turning right and those same straightbound vehicles. Again, shifting the risk within the intersection does not make the school safer.

On the contrary, delineators would completely prevent straightbound traffic from infringing upon the right-of-way of traffic turning left into the school and turning right out of it. I see no reason why this would be hazardous.

Finally, I also notice that the City/GDOT has not addressed the question of why this is not a school zone. As an elementary school within 300 feet of the road, it seems that this would not be a matter of any discretion as to whether a school zone should be established. A school zone, with reduced speed limits, flashing lights on signs to notify drivers of the reduced speed limits, and increased traffic fines, would surely have an impact on the speed of traffic through the area.

I do not believe that anyone is suggesting the police should be at this intersection three times per day every day. It would be completely unreasonable to expect any private party to fund traffic enforcement on a public road. I believe the comments about police not being present were in response to the City's information that police have been on site.

I note that police were seen by some parents on site yesterday, and we hope for more enforcement as an immediate deterrent to drivers who routinely violate the lane. Knowing it is being enforced will hopefully slow the tide of violations in the interim while I permanent solution is implemented.

No intersection should be designed in such a way as to require constant police supervision to make it safe. That is why we are stressing the need for delineators/bollards, which serve as a physical barrier to prevent unsafe driving and traffic infractions without the need for any police personnel on site.

Thank you, "Concerned," for checking on the other intersections. I was wondering the same thing. I find the left turning traffic an invalid reason for dismissing delineators as a solution.

Thank you City of Alpharetta and the GDOT for acknowledging our concerns and being prepared to analyse the situation. I would like to point out that this issue was not raised to only address the traffic flow on Crabapple Rd (as the the proposed course of action mentioned above will address). Can you also please focus on the reason for raising this issue in the first place which is to address the safety at this intersection for the 170+ school children and the clients, patients and employees of the paediatrician, family dentist, OB/GYN, and other companies in this complex.

This afternoon a Milton police officer violated the lane in heavy traffic conditions. He cut me off as I had the right if way to exit the school since traffic was stopped behind a left-turning vehicle.

Milton Police Chief Harrell has been made aware of the incident and has expressed concern and her intention to address it with her officers.

If the public's complete disdain for the laws of this intersection was not already clear, a public safety officer's disregard of the lane markings solidifies our concerns.

Yesterday afternoon the City of Alpharetta received authorization from the Georgia Department of Transportation to make certain alterations to the roadway configuration at the subject location. Final design and implementation will begin next week, weather permitting.

The authorized improvements include the elimination of the eastbound, right-hand deceleration lane and the creation of a dedicated center turn lane for east and westbound motorists. The removal of the deceleration lane will alleviate the safety issue with respect to some drivers treating it as a thru-lane to go around left turning vehicles. The center turn lane will move left turning vehicles out of the flow of traffic to preserve roadway operations and functionality.

GDOT will not authorize the use of bollards at this location; as such application will not fully alleviate the safety issue. Further, it would not provide for moving left turning vehicles out of the main traffic flow; resulting in a degradation of roadway performance.

Consideration was given to prohibiting left turn movements onto the roadway from adjoing properties. The City requested that no action be taken on such a measure at this time; however, it may be given further consideration in the future if warranted by safety concerns.

City of Alpharetta:

Your most recent update stated that work would begin on the intersection last week. We have seen utility crews in the area but no significant visible work being done to the roadway. Can you please provide an update as to the status of the project?

Thank you.

The design concept has been finalized and has been added to the scheduled work for our paving contractor. At this time we are awaiting a final schedule date from that contractor as to when they will be on site. As soon as the contractors finalizes the date, we will provide an update on this message string.

I again wanted to express my concern regarding the junction
I appreciate the efforts of the city to find a solution, however my concern as previously stated is that this creation of a through la e with turning la e

I again wanted to express my concern regarding the junction
I appreciate the efforts of the city to find a solution, however my concern as previously stated is that this creation of a through lane with turning lane is only going to create a more tempting situation for the through traffic to speed on that road.
We have not seen any increased officer presence and as it is not feasible nor effective long term I would urge the city to include at least a speed sensor and indicator with solar panels as is present on Houze rd and Freemanville rd and several other locations around the area to remind drivers to slow down.
It will be im

The City's contractor advises that they will be on site by Monday to begin work.

The reconfiguration of the roadway at this location has been completed. The right deceleration lane on eastbound Highway 372 / Crabapple Road has been removed and a center left turn lane has been added.

Thanks for fixing this issue!

Thanks for fixing this issue!

Thanks for fixing this issue!

Thanks for fixing this issue!